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  • #26
    To end the confusion i put the naughty dog slide, i do have XDK slide about it too,
    but sometimes it is more beliveable if we use PS4 slide

    this is naughty dog slide from its pdf, Last of us 60 FPS

    remember the rule
    there is 2 metric
    ms is metric to represent FPS, or how long it takes to render a scene, for higer FPS it need more shorter
    there is also resolution metric, both is not directly related, means you can have 1080p but 30 fps, but if you can reduce the workload to 15 ms, then it is 60 FPS

    look at this naughtly dog try to reduce the workload so the game become 60 FPS !!!!

    Click image for larger version

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    • #27
      Originally posted by mistercteam View Post
      15 ms it is shown as 59.99 it is standard
      GPU 15 is performance percentage, (QOS in action)

      I posted above after doing research 1st
      Evopin is actually right so do MrX and So do Insider

      at Gforce i am digging and research 1st, you have to check GPU rendering pipeline to know about 14-15ms thing
      1/60 x 1000 = 15-16ms that is standard thing
      gfx is fluctuated a bit in the range of 14-16ms
      but the horizontal is dynamic plus the GPU locked to 15% total power

      there is 2 number
      farthest right is 14-15 ms is represent ms as it is why locked to 59.9 FPS
      the GPU 14-15 is GPU load, you can see on other image SP test, it is become 30-50%,

      I understand the FPS and miliseconds completely.

      I also understand that with things like ASYNC shaders and compute cues and examples like what they did with uncharted.

      What im saying MisterC is how do you know that GPU number is related to GPU load and not a millisecond reading?

      You said that in SP test it is 30-50, can you show me a photo of something that shows this number, because so far every number I have seen gets worked into the millisecond numbers.

      Cheers mate,

      G

      Comment


      • #28
        MisterC, I want to believe what you are saying, and im not 100% convinced it is GPU LOAD, and im also not 100% convinced it is miliseconds either, however as the GPU number increases (red) the horizontal resolution decreases (this should NOT happen) if you are throwing MORE GPU juice at the screen. If it was JUST the GPU number increasing and the resolution staying the same, then it is definitely the GPU getting used more.

        I'm enjoying the hunt.

        G

        Comment


        • #29
          i do have i will upload it later. .....
          like i said, it is infact corooborated with my digging,
          plus i already showed sometimes before the XDK that for some part only allow gfx context no compute context
          as still disabled, means MS with its virtualized system can do whatever
          it can do limit the gpu performance
          it can do change the performance using clock gating
          it can do limit access to it by limit the context into the Gfx core
          basucally there is many kind of performance target

          i will upload it later
          the GPU is fluctuated, on some other test but the ms is locked to frame its targetted

          Comment


          • #30
            Originally posted by mistercteam View Post
            i do have i will upload it later. .....
            like i said, it is infact corooborated with my digging,
            plus i already showed sometimes before the XDK that for some part only allow gfx context no compute context
            as still disabled, means MS with its virtualized system can do whatever
            it can do limit the gpu performance
            it can do change the performance using clock gating
            it can do limit access to it by limit the context into the Gfx core
            basucally there is many kind of performance target

            i will upload it later
            the GPU is fluctuated, on some other test but the ms is locked to frame its targetted
            My guess, based on Sprint videos: 1080p with dymanic reso, same as COW:AW. 30 frames on cutscenes and 60 gameplay.

            I agree the GPU may indicate the % of usage, which is weird, why shouldnt they max the GPU?

            The value below the GPU is reso (look at the white Board during the 4th episode, if values are shown in green the games is running at 1080p if red 720p).

            At 10:55 on episode 4 we have the best scenario for cutscenes (1920, 33MS and seems GPU usage is around 21%!!! once its green we have 1080p, then we have final specs 1920x1080p/30fps)

            During gameplay for example at 11:22 at the same episode (832, 16MS and GPU usage (??) around 14%, once its green its on 1080p, then the final specs for that scenario is 832x1080p/60fps)

            So we have dynamic res. The GPU usage (??) tho is very intriguing!

            Comment


            • #31
              Why don't we tweet one of the developers and just ask? Just ask what that number is...

              Comment


              • #32
                does anyone remember in the eurogamer article Microsoft stated that the Xbox One was the world's first virtual system console/system (I forgot the exact words used)

                Comment


                • #33
                  HALO 5 DYNAMIC RESOLUTION

                  It seems that halo 5 does have dynamic resolution. However, there is somethings I have noticed.

                  First, the GPU IS NOT BEING TAXED during warzone multiplayer gameplay. The max the gpu reaches during gameplay is 25%.

                  You also notice that the sometimes the GPU PERCENTAGE is high while the resolution is low and then the resolution is high but the GPU PERCENTAGE is low. You would think this does not make any sense. After all the resolution should be high when the GPU % is high.
                  However, resolution is more determined by the bandwidth available to the game. If the bandwidth is not the bottleneck, the GPU then become the bottleneck. GPU is not the bottleneck in XBOX one despite what people think.
                  The bottleneck has been bandwidth. DDR3 does not has enough bandwidth to consistently drive 1080p. However, the xbox one does have the esram. If most of the render target is placed in it, then game will be at 1080p.
                  If you look carefully at the videos, you will notice only one thing determine the resolution and that is REN. Notice that the lower REN is, the higher the resolution. LOOK AT THE VIDEO AND YOU WILL SEE. My theory is that REN represent the about of the render target in DDR3, the less in DDR3, meaning more render target in esram, the better the resolution. Therefore, the only thing is needed to improve resolution is better use of esram as the GPU can handle make 4k resolution with ease.
                  That is why at GDC, when the PIX of the esram was improved, the proformance improved by 15% and that was without tile resource and dx12, imagine when those come on stream. Plus MAYBE HBM?.

                  Next, we can see that the jaguar core in the xbox can only feed the GPU up to 25% during gameplay. That is why it was said that dx12 will make it seem as if the XBOX ONE has gotten an extra GPU.This is better dx12 will increase the cpu performance by 100-300%. At this time the GPU can maybe reach up to 50% use during gameplay, therefore more particles, effects etc.

                  The next point is that XBOX ONE has reduced performance during cutscenes, and at that point GPU can reach up to 60%. Weird!!!. And this can be seen in games such as Tome raider remaster, the withcer 3, fifa, halo 5 etc. Most games perform worst in cut scenes. Therefore in the future, gameplay reach 4k 60fps, cut scenes will still be at 1080p 30fps. That means developers should stat using real-time cut scenes.

                  Comment


                  • #34
                    Originally posted by revben View Post
                    HALO 5 DYNAMIC RESOLUTION

                    It seems that halo 5 does have dynamic resolution. However, there is somethings I have noticed.

                    First, the GPU IS NOT BEING TAXED during warzone multiplayer gameplay. The max the gpu reaches during gameplay is 25%.

                    You also notice that the sometimes the GPU PERCENTAGE is high while the resolution is low and then the resolution is high but the GPU PERCENTAGE is low. You would think this does not make any sense. After all the resolution should be high when the GPU % is high.
                    However, resolution is more determined by the bandwidth available to the game. If the bandwidth is not the bottleneck, the GPU then become the bottleneck. GPU is not the bottleneck in XBOX one despite what people think.
                    The bottleneck has been bandwidth. DDR3 does not has enough bandwidth to consistently drive 1080p. However, the xbox one does have the esram. If most of the render target is placed in it, then game will be at 1080p.
                    If you look carefully at the videos, you will notice only one thing determine the resolution and that is REN. Notice that the lower REN is, the higher the resolution. LOOK AT THE VIDEO AND YOU WILL SEE. My theory is that REN represent the about of the render target in DDR3, the less in DDR3, meaning more render target in esram, the better the resolution. Therefore, the only thing is needed to improve resolution is better use of esram as the GPU can handle make 4k resolution with ease.
                    That is why at GDC, when the PIX of the esram was improved, the proformance improved by 15% and that was without tile resource and dx12, imagine when those come on stream. Plus MAYBE HBM?.

                    Next, we can see that the jaguar core in the xbox can only feed the GPU up to 25% during gameplay. That is why it was said that dx12 will make it seem as if the XBOX ONE has gotten an extra GPU.This is better dx12 will increase the cpu performance by 100-300%. At this time the GPU can maybe reach up to 50% use during gameplay, therefore more particles, effects etc.

                    The next point is that XBOX ONE has reduced performance during cutscenes, and at that point GPU can reach up to 60%. Weird!!!. And this can be seen in games such as Tome raider remaster, the withcer 3, fifa, halo 5 etc. Most games perform worst in cut scenes. Therefore in the future, gameplay reach 4k 60fps, cut scenes will still be at 1080p 30fps. That means developers should stat using real-time cut scenes.
                    I can't find any report of it having a dynamic resolution. we already know multiplayer was said to have 1080 60fps and we assumed single player was 1080P 30FPS but no word on that.

                    Comment


                    • #35
                      Originally posted by Shonuff View Post

                      I can't find any report of it having a dynamic resolution. we already know multiplayer was said to have 1080 60fps and we assumed single player was 1080P 30FPS but no word on that.
                      I do not believe that either, I am making reference to the tech, no one knows.

                      Comment


                      • #36
                        Yup and they also confirmed that the build is using assets that are over 10 weeks old and pretty much all we have seen is placeholders and unfinished assets of H5.

                        I'm guessing they are using dx11+ to get locked 60fps then when the polishing stage comes and they have a whole bunch of extra resources to spend on the visuals.

                        Also the the pics from neogaf revealed the the gpu thread was averaging 25% usage at 33ms (30fps) That wouldn't make any sense as the beta was even running at 60fps. Unless gaf just decided to record the numbers whenever it was at its worst.

                        Also, if 1 thread uses 25%, 2 thread uses 50%?? They are nowhere near utilizing the X1 to its potential and more or less points to a massive upgrade in visuals before launch of halo 5. It just doesn't make any sense that they are only 4 months away from launch and its so horribly optimized, not to mention H2A has better graphics and it was still running the old H2 engine in the background at all times. Polishing comes last with MS, gameplay first.
                        Last edited by qO-Lantern-Op; 06-21-2015, 09:15 PM.

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                        • #37
                          Maybe Halo 5 was designed to launch with dx12 ready in mind.(this is why we have dynamic resolution right now)

                          Windows 10 on xbox One is planned to launch before Halo 5 ? If yes then that's it i think.

                          I think that because i remember Phil Spencer said on twitter, the first dx12 games on xbox one is coming this holiday 2015, and i don't think fable legends is the only one for this year..
                          Last edited by kipotan; 06-21-2015, 10:23 PM.

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                          • #38
                            Originally posted by revben View Post
                            HALO 5 DYNAMIC RESOLUTION

                            It seems that halo 5 does have dynamic resolution. However, there is somethings I have noticed.

                            First, the GPU IS NOT BEING TAXED during warzone multiplayer gameplay. The max the gpu reaches during gameplay is 25%.

                            You also notice that the sometimes the GPU PERCENTAGE is high while the resolution is low and then the resolution is high but the GPU PERCENTAGE is low. You would think this does not make any sense. After all the resolution should be high when the GPU % is high.
                            However, resolution is more determined by the bandwidth available to the game. If the bandwidth is not the bottleneck, the GPU then become the bottleneck. GPU is not the bottleneck in XBOX one despite what people think.
                            The bottleneck has been bandwidth. DDR3 does not has enough bandwidth to consistently drive 1080p. However, the xbox one does have the esram. If most of the render target is placed in it, then game will be at 1080p.
                            If you look carefully at the videos, you will notice only one thing determine the resolution and that is REN. Notice that the lower REN is, the higher the resolution. LOOK AT THE VIDEO AND YOU WILL SEE. My theory is that REN represent the about of the render target in DDR3, the less in DDR3, meaning more render target in esram, the better the resolution. Therefore, the only thing is needed to improve resolution is better use of esram as the GPU can handle make 4k resolution with ease.
                            That is why at GDC, when the PIX of the esram was improved, the proformance improved by 15% and that was without tile resource and dx12, imagine when those come on stream. Plus MAYBE HBM?.

                            Next, we can see that the jaguar core in the xbox can only feed the GPU up to 25% during gameplay. That is why it was said that dx12 will make it seem as if the XBOX ONE has gotten an extra GPU.This is better dx12 will increase the cpu performance by 100-300%. At this time the GPU can maybe reach up to 50% use during gameplay, therefore more particles, effects etc.

                            The next point is that XBOX ONE has reduced performance during cutscenes, and at that point GPU can reach up to 60%. Weird!!!. And this can be seen in games such as Tome raider remaster, the withcer 3, fifa, halo 5 etc. Most games perform worst in cut scenes. Therefore in the future, gameplay reach 4k 60fps, cut scenes will still be at 1080p 30fps. That means developers should stat using real-time cut scenes.
                            I hear what you are saying, and im just saying im not 100% convinced either way yet.

                            We know this game has been in development for 3 years so them using FULL DX12 is sort of out of the question.

                            However like you said the lower the ren the higher the resolution, BUT, also remember that IF and im saying IF the GPU number is measured in 'how long it takes the gpu to finish the frame' then it would ALAWAYS go up when the resolution goes DOWN (which from what I have seen is what happens every time)

                            Because the way I see it is if the GPU is going to take longer to finish the frame then it will scale back the resolution to try and help the GPU finish the frame quicker.

                            Do I hope it is a GPU percentage (OF COURSE), im just trying to do the math and make sure we are not jumping to a conclusion that others will then later laugh at us. I do numbers for a living and just trying to analise them.

                            Keep up the good work.

                            G
                            Last edited by G-Force; 06-22-2015, 12:44 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #39
                              Originally posted by mistercteam View Post
                              For me i already explained, that the CPU like core for future GPU is HP-APU
                              it is part of where used to be called as OBAN
                              it is certainly why it is low yield
                              Main SOC would not get low yield

                              Gfx Core consist
                              4 CP = Future HP APU, Also connected to 768 Scalar like mike mantor patent or Journal paper
                              6 CU group = Front end + Middle + back end (all CUs/SIMD based), read Intel DX12 ROV, it is basically will be basis for programmable backend

                              it is also why in 2012 when Denver project announced by Nvidia, they talk about cpu like core in gfx core, (they use ARM)

                              it is also why in my prev slide i showed that DX12 need to be streamlined process before CP stream to Vector block
                              means CP will become cpu like core, as DX12 hinted that they need enabling more cpu thread as CPU will take care in the front end
                              means in the future even CP is gfx core function, internally it could be simpler cpu like core,

                              all above also same as Nvidia echelon,
                              cpu like core + SIMD

                              in simple X1
                              CPU like Core (branch+Scalar) + 768 scalar float (Serial + Cotrol)
                              SIMD Processor unit = Parrarel (DLP) = 6 CU group

                              Plus pay attention to John Sell latest conference titled Xbox One Next Gen Game Processor with AMD Sebastien
                              as we know AMD sebastien is trinity SOC architect
                              plus we know Trinity for me is base concept for all future APU
                              trinity has 6CU
                              PIM also per 6CU or 12CU
                              Just like X1 12 CU per group
                              but X1 using very low clock for SIMD,

                              will talk and put my slide from prev discussion later
                              A lot of what I see is first implementation of HSA DSP's. there are a plenty of DSP's on processors, but non that where fully integrated to be used as needed. Large data sets being transformed without noticeable lag. everyone knows how gpu's are wider than cpu's, dsp are incredibly wide. a 360 processor pim could be replicated in the One's dsp's.

                              Comment


                              • #40
                                Originally posted by Jedidiah73 View Post
                                Why don't we tweet one of the developers and just ask? Just ask what that number is...
                                we do, several times, but Holmes not returning any answer
                                i believe there is some surprises about H5,
                                as matter of fact the Halo5 image res on xbox.com remain very high resolution
                                when TR and Forza6 remain the same as the native resolution

                                but maybe let others twit holmes, maybe got some answer

                                Comment


                                • #41
                                  Originally posted by mistercteam View Post
                                  we do, several times, but Holmes not returning any answer
                                  i believe there is some surprises about H5,
                                  as matter of fact the Halo5 image res on xbox.com remain very high resolution
                                  when TR and Forza6 remain the same as the native resolution

                                  but maybe let others twit holmes, maybe got some answer
                                  Regardless of all of this, I do have to say...with what we saw the 360 do with 512 megabytes, now we have 8 gigs...yes it's shared, but if W10 is so great, I bet it doesn't take up much memory either. That was one of the saving factors in why we saw such awesome graphics on the 360 later. Eventually the UI was more efficient with less memory. If any part of DX12 is true, coupled with W10, I just don't see how we won't see a performance boost in games at least 3 times what they are right now. Forget PS4, which I'm no tech guy, but I don't see this massive advantage in the games the ps4 is supposed to have...and yes I own one. I dunno, good effort though. I still think square and crystal dynamics are being jerks about the exclusive deal. They are totally feeding Playstation fan boys without straight up telling them...it's like, at this point does it matter if it's exclusive? I really do wish xbox took TR away from them completely...it would have really been a true blow as much as they botch about it. Can't wait though. On a sidenote, anyone picking up Batman this week? I have it pre-downloaded.
                                  Last edited by Jedidiah73; 06-22-2015, 12:36 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #42
                                    start tomorrow i will added XDK proof linked also to page 1 in this thread
                                    XDK thread
                                    showed
                                    2 L2 system
                                    GDS to GDS transfer (on current AMD GCN it means 2 physical or xfired, but on X1 it is in logic design)
                                    TCP = L1
                                    TCC = L2
                                    16 TCC = 16 VA
                                    and others
                                    this is directly from XDK, all of it which nobody outside MrX Journal previously ,
                                    dare to post it (as means they have to eat crow)


                                    Comment


                                    • #43
                                      I'd like to focus on how BC was achieved. Even DF said "technological miracle".
                                      Dou you think is there a sort of porting ppc->x86 made by Ms before releasing the game or is just virtualization with an interpreter that converts "on the fly" ppc instructions to x86 ones?!

                                      Comment


                                      • #44
                                        Originally posted by Seiya di Pegaso View Post
                                        I'd like to focus on how BC was achieved. Even DF said "technological miracle".
                                        Dou you think is there a sort of porting ppc->x86 made by Ms before releasing the game or is just virtualization with an interpreter that converts "on the fly" ppc instructions to x86 ones?!

                                        Could be some of those 50 processors/mcu were put in to do hardware porting from PPC > X86/x64 code

                                        Comment


                                        • #45
                                          Originally posted by F00xm4n View Post


                                          Could be some of those 50 processors/mcu were put in to do hardware porting from PPC > X86/x64 code
                                          I think yes. Those 50CPUs/MCUs are FPGA - that are reprogrammable. So in theory they could be programmed for any ISA(instructions set) they want.

                                          Comment


                                          • #46
                                            Originally posted by Seiya di Pegaso View Post
                                            I'd like to focus on how BC was achieved. Even DF said "technological miracle".
                                            Dou you think is there a sort of porting ppc->x86 made by Ms before releasing the game or is just virtualization with an interpreter that converts "on the fly" ppc instructions to x86 ones?!

                                            I think that they are focusing on the wrong things! its the hardware that is the technological marvel rather than the software in this particular instance! Its a virtual machine running on the hypervisor in the same way as the normal game OS. They probably had as much issues with the DRM as the actual emulator. The amazing part is how they virtualised the hardware to present the right architecture through the hypervisor to the virtual machine running on top. I would imagine that the virtual machine is not too far from a standard X360 OS and thinks it is actually talking to a PPC processor :-)

                                            Comment


                                            • #47
                                              We should all remember that the X1 is due for a 10 year life span which means they have a lot of time to keep the box fresh and producing better and better games.

                                              Basically,

                                              Halo 5 doesn't have to be DirectX 12. It just needs to look great and keep the franchise alive. If this is only the 2nd year of a 10 year life, then they can wait another year to show off DX12. If Crackdown, Scalebound, and Quantum Break are the first DX12 games, it still doesn't hurt them.

                                              People are starting to realize that the X1 is way more powerful then previously thought. They don't have to blow their load on this Holiday season if, in fact, the X1 has been planned to have a 10 year life span.
                                              Last edited by QuazL; 06-22-2015, 03:59 PM.

                                              Comment


                                              • #48
                                                hmmm??

                                                http://oxcgn.com/2015/06/22/xbox-one...arts-listings/

                                                Walmart’s website recently listed (now removed) a new Xbox One console, only titled ‘Xbox One Elite Console’, priced at $499.00USD.

                                                Comment


                                                • #49
                                                  Originally posted by mokkey View Post
                                                  hmmm??

                                                  http://oxcgn.com/2015/06/22/xbox-one...arts-listings/

                                                  Walmart’s website recently listed (now removed) a new Xbox One console, only titled ‘Xbox One Elite Console’, priced at $499.00USD.

                                                  interesting, I wonder what the Elite console could be, the rumours seem to be gathering pace... What did the guy on Youtube who said it was coming reveal about it?

                                                  If i had to guess I would say it will be a normal Xbox with a 1tb drive and an Elite controller. They can't really call it an Elite and then not include an Elite controller can they?

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #50
                                                    Originally posted by mokkey View Post
                                                    hmmm??

                                                    http://oxcgn.com/2015/06/22/xbox-one...arts-listings/

                                                    Walmart’s website recently listed (now removed) a new Xbox One console, only titled ‘Xbox One Elite Console’, priced at $499.00USD.
                                                    Probably comes with new controller and halo 5

                                                    Comment


                                                    • MEGATRON 631
                                                      Editing a comment
                                                      I would buy that in a hot minute. I've been thinking about getting a second Xbox, and I'm definitely getting the elite controller and Halo 5, so it's a no brainer. Only thing that would hold me back is I kinda want for console redesign like a slim version

                                                    • David Michael
                                                      Editing a comment
                                                      If this has kinect with it I'm all in again
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